Popularizing DXSG and Altfire

[~[FGS]SaSQuATcH~]

DXMP has had LOTS of newbies for the past new years but unfortunately not many of them stayed. Of course there have been random clans that survived a couple weeks or more but the community itself has stopped growing nevertheless.

What we know is that many of those people who give a shot to DX and DXMP are fans. There are guys who purchased it via Steam or a magazine basically for free but I know some people who never actually played DXSP before DXMP in the first place. We also know that today's DXMP players are either very skilled or very unskilled. Winning an auged combat for a beginner against a pro is literally impossible, unless the pro lams his own ass or something similar, hence the fact you see screenshots of scores like 100-5. Even today when I play a game it's almost certain that the server will have one or two newbies. They either get owned, leave, and maybe never come back or they go play 0augs where they have a chance to frag, especially with firerate bugs.
However, these newbs often end up playing an RPG map and try to secure the shop along with a GEP gun.

This is what we need. Make our own RPG city map which will attract newbs like magnet then we will use automessages for advertising our other servers, such as: "New round starts on altfire server shortly; upcoming map: Amtrack"

We could also create a special trigger which automatically takes the player to the other server. The point of this is that people won't have to disconnect, then select server. While it wouldn't hurt anyone to do so, DX players tend to be lazy, that's why you don't see newbies willing to learn augs. It won't be hard to synchronize these servers, we just have to make sure that noone performs servertravel on one of these servers or when he does he restarts the servers before leaving so the cycles will start over. The best scenario would be creating the possibility of auto-synchronized servers, (If map is changed on Altfire, people on RPG will know immediately) I'm not sure if this is possible, I've got more hopes for the special trigger.

Our own RPG map would need 1-2 good coders and some mappers. I'd love to be one of these mappers I'm just curious if anyone else would sign up for this too.

[~][FGS][Nobody~]

Uhhh.. that sounds interesting and in theory it's possible..

Was that your idea or the idea of your beer?

[~[FGS]SaSQuATcH~]

it was a joint operation!

[~DJ~]

OMG CHRIS U READIN MY MIND BRO.

I always wanted to work on RPG, infact, I currently was. ASK NOODELZ. IT'S BEEN AGES SINCE I WANTED TO TAKE THAT ZXC SERVER DOWN (no haxz, FAIR VS FAIR SERVER COMPETITION) and I was thinkin like making something pro. sadly, I fail at mapping.. although I've set up some neat stuff. Your idea is very wonderful.

That server-to-server travel without disconnecting method is very possible, and I've seen it being used very effectively on a UT99 server. Bunnytrack. FTB Bunnytrack servers to be more precious. It tells the map name on the side of the field with ammount of players playing on it (EXAMPLE: Server 2: BT_CHEKENPWNS (14/32) ) and you just type "!go <number>" and you travel to that server. Very effective, if one of you have UT99 you should check it. I'll post screenshots. I think we could do something like that, and on the map too.. Teles and all.

Overall, I love you chris, for thinking about RPG.

JOINT PROJECT OVER RPG. YESSSSSSSSSS.....YESSSSSSSS!

[Mastakilla]

it was a joint operation!

You stoned?

[ShadowRunner]

This is where I get frustrated with you Krisz, I've played Altfire a lot more than you over five years. Fix the server, before you think about advertising it, you are just wasting precious mapping time otherwise. I am not blaming you, or being rude, I am simply a bit sad that I've played altfire since 2005 and can see very easily what has destroyed it.

Cozmo is making RPG city. Face is making Facetown. You dont need a RPG to advertise, just a message mod.

If you want to popularize SG, stick ALL the SG maps on the server and whack on mapvote. Consider tnag, low gravity. The maps are so large. I.E. Make it a second Altfire server, but only SG maps. There are enough maps to do this now.

If you want to popularize Altfire. Well, tbh, you never listen. Take OFF the small zero aug maps, kick any spwndoor lammers, bring back the server how Icho and then myself ran it, re-add the maps that are missing, finish Prodigy (hehe still waiting). I played Altfire longer than any active player in this clan, but you dont take my advice. Remove shotty too, modern pc's or something are abominating that wep. It's got worse than it was before because too many small maps as well. I've sat and watched this screw-up patiently, but soon I will just take control and rent a SG and Altfire and configure it using my expertise. I will run them and prove to you, current configurations and maps are totally and utterly wrong. Sorry to be so blunt.

RPG - well sure, I am making groom lake (all four a51 maps), feel free to do what u want with it. I would hate to see you guys get involved in ANOTHER rpg project and end up wasting your time, because you still havent got the servers you are trying to advertise, correctly set up.

Fix the product, before you fix the advert dude. I feel like the auggers who cant get a decent game anymore, thats why Im spending my time on 0-aug server. You can not have a map in altfire that you can throw a lam from one spawn into another spawn. You can not have maps like pacman. You need Deus Ex maps, which are atmospheric, dark, you need shock rifle maps, any small map makes it pointless to use shock, when they can pulse or lam you before you take a shot or second shot with shock. It is ridiculous that I am trying to headshot people, but a shotgun is in my face before I have seen the enemy. That isnt altfire my friend, it's a chilling, camping, sniping server which has been turned into iceworld with lams. It is hell.

That is why there is no skill on that server anymore. There is no need for new players to ever use a shock rifle. I give up trying to explain to you this. Put only the type of map that will force players to train, Scoutzknivez is small, but it doesnt allow any of the crap you have allowed to gradually control the server. Trust me for once. Fix the product THEN think about advertising.

[~DJ~]

nah nevermind. no need to edit ur maps rollo.

And, Cozmo and Face, both are not FGS. We're more about talking FGS. But nevermind as I think you wouldn't agree on RPG stuff.

[ShadowRunner]

OK I have had a cigarette now...

Point is...

first you have to BRING those newbs.
secondly this project with Eidos is going to do exactly that.
Bring the players to DXMP first, THEN let them run around an RPG server.
Then Krisz's idea might work.

I see a compromise.
We build Shanghai and Detroit. The streets, which can then connect to the maps like Hive Bar etc...
DJ, did you ever see Eidos support any project before like this. No. So why would we ignore that opportunity?
I worked hard to get Eidos to support us, now everyone is like "sorry I'm working on that mod", but hey that mod aint gonna be seen by many, if we don't gracefully get on board with Eidos. Can you understand that?
If you are going to make an RPG, plz ffs make Shanghai and Detroit...

Also what worries, me. MMcity died, RPG_City is dead/abused, there is no real RPG in dxmp and in my lifetime never was.
I see people wasting their time in a huge way and missing this opportunity with Eidos.
Also I think my previous post has a good point. The product needs fixing.

And Krisz, I apologize, my first response was out of order, your project is a clever idea.

[~[FGS]SaSQuATcH~]

It's not the changing of servers that brought Altfire and basically the whole game down. It's the number of players. What I'm trying to do here is NOT getting NEW players but KEEPING those who give DX a shot. Non of us can imagine how many new players this game has a year and how many of them actually decide to stay for at least ONE week and then leave anyway.

RPG is attractive. Altfire and augs are not, no matter how awesome they are when you finally learn what exactly you have to do.

You don't get to be as killed player in Altfire because you can make headshots with an energy rifle. That gun is basically sniper rifle with maximum damage. Many of the guns in altfire are useless when compared to other weapons. This is why you get bored of noobs killing you with pulse and shotgun all the time.

The worst maps sometimes end up being the most played ones and you'd decide to remove them. Then you will end up having pro maps WITHOUT the players. How does that help altfire? How does that help the community? Who are we to decide what map is pro and what map is lame when the statistics are only proving us wrong? If players have fun tossing LAM and shotguns in eachother's face then LET them do it in some maps. Then you can introduce them the pro maps and maybe they will stay if they know that the following map will be fun for their desires, such as Pacman. Slowly they will want to play the pro map and maybe even vote for it if it's actually that good.

Rollo you've been here for years studying and enjoying Altfire, DX, you're the one who should know the most what maps and mods KEEP the players. Platoon was awesome, but the circumstances were different. There were a lot more players, no firerate bugs, in addition I'm sure that we don't remember much about the other servers since Platoon had most if not all players. Today Altfire has other POPULAR servers to deal with and if we don't give the players what they want, how can we ask them to do what we want?

I'm offering here a way to keep the noobs and make them want to play altfire. If we could make a mod that grants the RPG player special rewards when performing well on Altfire or DXSG they will be even more interested in ALL of the [FGS] servers.

Your DX:HR project is priority, no question. You don't get the support of Eidos for all random ideas you have in mind, this is fact. The difference is that given the capabilities of this clan's coders and mappers, creating this RPG map will take no time when compared to your project.

Very important part we tend to ignore is that this game always has newbs, they just leave too fast because they don't have a clue about what to do. In RPG map we can set up training grounds for augs, altfire which they can test on the true servers when they feel ready. Place datacubes, give them information on how to set up the altfire shooting, what augs to choose, what lockpicks are for, etc.

DXMP is a complicated game and not attractive at all. Accept this and then we can move on to hardcore projects. We have the support of Eidos but do we also keep the players or just waste lots of time on something futile? Do we want our name in DX credits or do we want a better DXMP?

Having lots of newbs temporarly won't help DXMP. I want back the time when there were 10-20 active clans, no matter how stupid some might have been. I want back the time of clan wars and multiclanners, I want OUR clan to have a point. Look at [a]lpha. They dismissed because they realised soon enough that this game is dead and not worth spending time for. They were wrong, this game is still not dead, noobs playing RPG are evidence.

Rollo I've seen many of your maps and they're awesome. Very detailed, very powerful. I can't wait for Nexus, can't wait to see new Abydoss. There's one error that occurs in many altfire and DXSG maps which is the size. These maps were designed for large combats with 10-20 players. Pro players who have a clue about DX gameplay, players what [FGS] is full of. You make maps for our kind, not for the kind of those who take the majority of active DXMP players. Your maps will be successful once again if you give these players a chance to WANT to play them and I can't possibly express how important this is.

Twinz is the only map I ever released for public and when I made it I knew what the players expect from a map. Medium size, big explosions, lots of guns, some secrets. Twinz has these and it also has errors, poor design at some places (as I was new to mapping when I made it). I've been working on a fix for a while but I don't get to have the time I want for mapping nowadays. The success of the classic DXSG maps is the small maplist. There were only CMD and A51, both were very popular. Today the maplist grows and maps are so huge, so complicated that people lose interest and join another server. I've been telling you this for years, keep the maplist low, introduce new stuff slowly and they will like it. Make the server have 3-4 maps, 3 classics and 1 new, they will LOVE it because eventually they will get bored of the classics.

This post is already too long, I'll get back to it later.

[ShadowRunner]

Krisz,
I completely agree with everything you said, but I realize one thing, you misunderstand me. I am not suggesting we have large maps. I am BEGGING we take off zero aug maps. Abandoned, Pacman, as you said the weps are overpowered.
That would still leave Twinz and Scoutz. If you read my rant properly, I am suggesting removal of large maps too.
I make very small maps too, look at HK Day After, its smaller than twinz. DXMP_S3x, Amtrack is smaller than Area51.

And actually one more thing I disagree, "who are we"... we lead by example, that is who we are.
By this I mean, we dont run a server that we dont ever play. To make a map or server popular, is simple, we spend time on it, and lead by example. But many FGS members in my absence behaved in a bad way on the server, admin abuse, spawn door lams, voting for Abandoned so that they could just throw lams around into spawns. That's no better than ZXC. So it didnt surprise me when I returned that everyone was playing ATDM.

I could say "who are you"... It was Rollo who put a zero aug map on the server for a test and it is Rollo who wants it removed. Who are you to demote me as server admin? I also put Pacman there as a favour to Baleout so he could test it. It is time to put both maps on a different server, talking about players leaving DXMP doesn't convince me Krisz.

And yes, I think we are the ones to decide what we present, not new guys who don't know every issue of altfire.
That's why I am suggesting also removing the SG maps to another altfire server. I'm being self-critical more than you realize.
All I am saying is, make altfire less extreme and more playable. I am not thinking about myself.

And as you said, Platoon was a success, Factory was a success, I have always thought about the wider picture.
You are simply missing the wider picture altogether and allowing a few noobs to get their way, when others have never seen the real altfire.

Ask yourself, can you see Xikron, Oomm, Toss, Axis and Ichotolot enjoying Pacman or Abandoned?
We both want the same thing, players to stick around, it will never happen on altfire if you dont put maps on there which reflect the overpowered weps. Maps like Proteus and MCI, 8Red, not zero aug crap... I can't believe I even have to explain this.

[~DJ~]

YEAH SCRAP WHAT I JUST SAID. I was in a hurry so yeah..

ANYWAY. Chris is totally right here, and his idea's great. It can bring more existing newbie players that play RPG to ALTFIRE or SG. You can see that those zXc servers are mostly full than ALTFIRE because they attract newbies or existing newbies.

We could totally score a RPG that promotes fighting instead of god-camping (but still have god zone areas).. I have various ways, as in.. first off.. basic idea.. To get stronger, you have to kill people. In total you get 3 augmentations, you start with 1, and each kill you get 1 more aug. Total 3.. yeah. Then they'll also learn to aug and what augs they have to select. Various areas involving fighting will be good, too, with basic RPG elements such as Shops, etc.

What you mention are Cozmo and Face.. they're NOT making that kind of RPG.. they have huge projects with login and other stuff. What I am talking about is basic already existing RPG like Funlines or RPGCity or even Lee's, and making then superb and all... I don't mean edit, I mean making a new map.

IN THE END OF MY POST.. ALL I WOULD LIKE TO SAY IS, EITHER IT PROMOTES ALTFIRE OR NOT. WE HAVE TO BEAT THAT ZXC NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. GODDAMN THERE SERVERS ALWAYS BEING FULL!@#@!#!%@!$

EDIT: schiesses rollo posted before meh

[ShadowRunner]

Chris is right about RPG and the advertising system is genius, datacubes too a great idea. And now you've explained you are talking about RPG maps, not an RPG I calm down.

But you guys are so completely and utterly wrong about altfire. You've lost the plot a bit to be honest and it is very sad.
I don't really feel I am in the same team to be honest. How can you argue that zero aug maps should be there?

We have a zero aug server?
We have an SG server with TWO maps.
We "have" an altfire server with mostly zero aug and all other SG maps including the two on the SG server.

Where is the *loving* logic in that?

It shows how little you actually know that server, that you say Altfire was always unpopular.
When we ran it, AG, SG and Altfire owned. That's why it got attacked dude.
You need a medium sized map or RPG-ish large map like DXMP_Frequency, it's the last time ever I am going to try to educate.

Also Krisz, go check on THC forums or Tejas thread on Alpha, people have a HATRED for what you are suggesting.
No-one hates medium-sized maps.

[IchoTolot]

We have a zero aug server?
We have an SG server with TWO maps.
We "have" an altfire server with mostly zero aug and all other SG maps including the two on the SG server.

0 Aug server should have normal weps with normal maps
SG server should have all SG Maps (only here and not on another server) and maybe a other weaponmod ... i prefer WeaponLord or Tactical
Altfire server should have normal maps

[Magus]

We have a zero aug server?
We have an SG server with TWO maps.
We "have" an altfire server with mostly zero aug and all other SG maps including the two on the SG server.

0 Aug server should have normal weps with normal maps
SG server should have all SG Maps (only here and not on another server) and maybe a other weaponmod ... i prefer WeaponLord or Tactical
Altfire server should have normal maps

It is good to see you understand.

Now convey that to the people running the server

[ShadowRunner]

0 Aug server should have normal weps with normal maps
SG server should have all SG Maps (only here and not on another server) and maybe a other weaponmod ... i prefer WeaponLord or Tactical
Altfire server should have normal maps

Majestic and I tried to run FGS the Ichotolot way. With respect, Chris DJ and Nobody can not tell me we should have only 1 low gravity server with all maps, it is not the FGS way. If this clan want to do things the Ichotolot way, I come back. If we bring back Wunderland 1 and Wunderland 2 and do what Icho says we should do, then I am happy to get involved. Stop saying like idiots what will work and wont, let the mapvote and serverlist decide. FGS always had two Wunderland. No-one can stop me bringing that back. Even Icho the leader agree we need to separate the maps. Calm down padawans.

Also you need to consider not wasting any more time and money. My suggestion. Since Nobody pays, Jima, Fear, Masta and Whiplash I think too pay, and I will pay, it is enough for us to get a box. With a box and 2 spare servers we can do this:

1. Wunderland 1 Server (Altfire normal maps) put Pacman and Abandoned on the zero aug server. Remove lams from this server. Tnag, low grav, zero augs. mapvote
2. Wunderland 2 Server -put large maps, lams and ALL SG maps, low gravity too. I say add 2 or 3 augs like Wunderland 2 in 2006 . mapvote. This can also be used for maptesting and wepmod testing.
3. Zero Aug Server 3 default weps maprotation
4. RPG server 4
5. Human Revolution Server 5
6 Classic SG server, augged and default and add tactical or weaponlord and all SG maps with mapvote. 6

Then no-one waste money, or time arguing.
Everyone happy with this?
We pull TOGETHER and rent a box. No-one try to change the winning successful FGS way. Not DJ, Not Cris, not anyone.
FGS is oldest clan for a reason. Please dont be in this clan 2 years and think you know something more about how to run FGSserver than Icho or the people he trained. It is really tiring having to explain to you why altfire is screwed up. You have little student mentality in that sense, some of the people arguing about this havent really seen the real altfire or why it was great and popular. FGS already decided this, I don't know why you guys are trying to argue against Wunderland 2 coming back.