The [FGS] Clan

All the maps are good, so people are voting within constraints of 7, if votes unlimited, I would vote all maps, including smaller maps, just I like camping turrets and chatting.

Fear wrote:How can you dislike Pool and Mini Dust, they are PERFECT 0 aug maps, gosh man.

I can ask you: How you can enjoy playing on smaller maps than Smuggler? Smuggler is small map, for 2-6 players. Pool and MiniDust are horrible small and claustrophobic, there is no space. You take a weapons from racks and start shooting at once. What is funny in massive spawn kills? Situation, where spawn points are located 5 seconds of walking between themselves is stupid, you don't have to think at all, just shooting.

Fear wrote:I voted Pool, Mini Dust, Snow, Bound, Lockdown and Office, for the simple reason that they are 0 aug maps, and most of the rest are not.

OMG Ok, tell me why Abbotabad, DressingRoom, Gobary, NYC_Statue, Snorbans_Final, Stalkyard, Turnpike, Yard8_beta2 are not 0 augs maps. I am waiting for arguments.

Fear wrote:There's a reason why THC bought back their 0 aug server you know

What? You are funny. There are only ancient, often bad maps. I played Smuggler, Smuggles, Silo, Zan-Goh, TunnelNetwork, Iceworld so many times... I want to puke when I see it. I see no reason for existence of THC 0 Augs Server. FGS 0 Augs is better, there are only new maps in good quality.

chin.democ. wrote:I've played Ice World so many times and I am so sick of it, that's the reason I built Snow, to try and offer the player a familiar setting but with more visuals and atmosphere going on which Iceworld lacked. Iceworld has been bad for creativity in 0 augs, really bad!

Iceworld maybe was not too bad in times of DXMS Server, but I didn't like this map even these times. I agree with opinions Iceworld is metabolic end product map, there is even no proper weapon racks and spawn points are located too long from racks. I like your Snow map, good job Chinny!

Pool and Mini Dust are too small for me to play seriously. That's why you see players using flamethrowers there.

Poor wrote:Pool and Mini Dust are too small for me to play seriously. That's why you see players using flamethrowers there.

But those two maps are intense non stop fighting.

Majster wrote:I can ask you: How you can enjoy playing on smaller maps than Smuggler? Smuggler is small map, for 2-6 players. Pool and MiniDust are horrible small and claustrophobic, there is no space. You take a weapons from racks and start shooting at once. What is funny in massive spawn kills? Situation, where spawn points are located 5 seconds of walking between themselves is stupid, you don't have to think at all, just shooting.

First of all, there is no such thing as a spawnkill in Deus Ex, the blue sphere will protect you until you equip a weapon, if you equip a weapon, you're going to fire at first chance. Instant combat after spawn is far better than searching for people, and if you were to play in a top standard 0 aug war you would see the light in regards to that.

Majster wrote:OMG Ok, tell me why Abbotabad, DressingRoom, Gobary, NYC_Statue, Snorbans_Final, Stalkyard, Turnpike, Yard8_beta2 are not 0 augs maps. I am waiting for arguments.

I said MOST, if you read my post. Gobary was the map i was talking about which i think is a good map for 0 augs, NYC_Statue is abismal, and it kills the server more often than it doesn't... prove me wrong on that one.

Majster wrote:What? You are funny. There are only ancient, often bad maps. I played Smuggler, Smuggles, Silo, Zan-Goh, TunnelNetwork, Iceworld so many times... I want to puke when I see it. I see no reason for existence of THC 0 Augs Server. FGS 0 Augs is better, there are only new maps in good quality.

Thats your opinion, which is quite a bad one because you haven't been playing the game long enough, the majority of 0 auggers will prefer older simpler maps because they dont want to search or admire visuals, would you do that in a clan war? The THC 0 aug server was bought back because of the FGS map rotation, it was a small map, followed by 10 large ones, and then a small one, this does NOT work and i guarantee the server doesnt make it all the way through the rotation even once before emptying. Iceworld, although simple and ugly, is perfect for a clan war scenario, i ain't even going to bother explaining that.

To finalize, i can understand why MAPPERS have an issue with old small maps, they want a change, and they want to see their own works being played on, however, players are what counts in reality, and the majority of 0 auggers left in the game do not care about searching and pressing levers, this comes from over 8 years of me playing the game, primarily 0 augs, try and tell me i don't know what i'm talking about, because i've been a mostly fulltime player of 0 augs since a year before GODZ dominated the scene. I've seen it slow down, speed up, die, revive, go at war with atdm-geeks, you name it.

All those maps i voted are great, as is Gobary, POOL is without doubt the best 0 aug map existing in the game, people who dislike these maps tend to be too slow to cope with them, and that comes from self experience because i was once a player who preferred maps like Area51 for the simple fact that i didn't want to go straight into combat after spawning, and worrying about whats behind me all the time, but let me tell you, you wont improve at all unless you change your way of thinking.

0 augs has been nothing but medbinds, rush and rape since i can remember, camping will get you some cheap sniper kills here and there i know because i used to play that way during my first year or so, it ain't going to benefit you when in close encounter with any half decent or above player, because the game allows people to make all sorts of binds, most of which are quite homosexual, the sniper bind for example, i believe that people who can't zoom and fire in 2 seperate key presses should throw water on their computers, it turns you into a sloppy sniper and makes you rely on spamming the assault rifle with as much fps as you want (unless playing in THC's server)... *cough* Phantom *cough*.

Again, i repeat... there is NO SUCH thing as a spawnkill, back to work i go.

Voted the following:

DXMP_CS-Office
DXMP_DressingRoom
DXMP_Lockdown
DXMP_Mini_Dust
DXMP_NYC_Statue
DXMP_Snow
DXMP_Turnpike

..but I accidentally voted Lockdown, wanted to vote for Pool... can't I re-vote? :S
NO OFFENSE.

~DJ~ wrote:Voted the following:

DXMP_CS-Office
DXMP_DressingRoom
DXMP_Lockdown
DXMP_Mini_Dust
DXMP_NYC_Statue
DXMP_Snow
DXMP_Turnpike

..but I accidentally voted Lockdown, wanted to vote for Pool... can't I re-vote? :S
NO OFFENSE.

Well currently both Pool and Lockdown are getting voted in so it makes no difference unless we get some more voting to change that, awesome voting numbers btw!

Fear wrote:First of all, there is no such thing as a spawnkill in Deus Ex, the blue sphere will protect you until you equip a weapon, if you equip a weapon, you're going to fire at first chance. Instant combat after spawn is far better than searching for people, and if you were to play in a top standard 0 aug war you would see the light in regards to that.

If player is killed in place where is spawn point, it's a spawnkill. Thats all.
If you so much like instant combat after spawn, you should love DXMP_CloseQuarters. It's really instant fight! Or let's make 300x300u map, it's only one small room. It would be for you perfect, map which is one small room with spawn points, you don't need more!

Fear wrote:I said MOST, if you read my post. Gobary was the map i was talking about which i think is a good map for 0 augs, NYC_Statue is abismal, and it kills the server more often than it doesn't... prove me wrong on that one.

I don't see your point with NYC_Statue, it's nice map really. I can't understand what problem you have with rest of maps. Abbotabad, Snorbans_Final, Stalkyard and Turnpike are maps in size similar to Smuggler, where you can find your enemy easily. DressingRoom is very small map and there is no problem with finding players. I can only agree with Yard8, where you have to searching for people, but it's medium size map, good for 5 players and more.

Fear wrote:Thats your opinion, which is quite a bad one because you haven't been playing the game long enough, the majority of 0 auggers will prefer older simpler maps because they dont want to search or admire visuals, would you do that in a clan war? The THC 0 aug server was bought back because of the FGS map rotation, it was a small map, followed by 10 large ones, and then a small one, this does NOT work and i guarantee the server doesnt make it all the way through the rotation even once before emptying. Iceworld, although simple and ugly, is perfect for a clan war scenario, i ain't even going to bother explaining that.

I started playing in 2005, so don't lecture me. I played in 2006 on Gamemajor, where was Smuggler, Zan-goh, TunnelNetwork and Smuggles. I see same maps on THC Server now. Playing all time on same maps gives fun - thats your opinion. I know many 0 augs players also and belive me, they want new
maps. Without new maps, 0 augs was very boring. Thats why I started play Altfire in 2010, I was looking for something new. Chinny's server made 0 augs again enjoyable and there are decent maps, but you and people like you are blind and don't see it. Unfortunately, more players aren't blind.
You are talking about clan wars, but there is no decent 0 augs clan. There are no clan wars. Anyway, clan wars are 4vs4 or 5vs5 usually. For example Stalkyard can be same good for clan war as Smuggler, I am sure.

I think people who want more old maps, just don't want learn how to play on new maps. They have guarantee of good scores on old maps. They lost somewhere fun from the game...

Fear wrote:To finalize, i can understand why MAPPERS have an issue with old small maps, they want a change, and they want to see their own works being played on, however, players are what counts in reality, and the majority of 0 auggers left in the game do not care about searching and pressing levers, this comes from over 8 years of me playing the game, primarily 0 augs, try and tell me i don't know what i'm talking about.

I have been playing since 2005. It's 7 years, only one less than you. Since GODZ Server dead I became only 0 augs player, because I didn't like servers with mods (like Altfire for example) and augged servers. I played on Gamemajor, DXMS Server, The [Z] Clan Server, RTK Server and many others, what I don't remember now. I am talking from posiotion of player. I know what I am talking about. I joined into FGS as warrior and I am still a warrior. I have made only one simple map and I still learn, I can't call myself as mapper.

I can understand you a bit. After GODZ dead, I missed to GODZ Server. Me and PolishEagle had our server with GODZ gametype and only with GODZ maps. We didn't want host server with another maps, even if was better than GODZ maps. You still love this old worse maps, but If you don't change your attitude, you will leave DXMP faster. Let's check ATDM Servers, Face's server with Aliens mod, Altfire and you will see DXMP is mix of many gametypes and maps. You don't have to stay in "vegetation".

Fear wrote:All those maps i voted are great, as is Gobary, POOL is without doubt the best 0 aug map existing in the game, people who dislike these maps tend to be too slow to cope with them, and that comes from self experience.

So, your expirence don't include me. I know how to play these maps and get not bad scores there usually, but don't get fun there, thats all.

Majster wrote:If player is killed in place where is spawn point, it's a spawnkill. Thats all.

*INCORRECT BUZZER* - If a player is killed when their sphere runs out, it's their own fault for being slow to either equip or get out of there, correct me if i'm wrong but isn't it possible to collect 3 weapons (not equip) and walk into half-safety before you can be damaged, yes it is, therefore you are wrong.

Majster wrote:If you so much like instant combat after spawn, you should love DXMP_CloseQuarters. It's really instant fight! Or let's make 300x300u map, it's only one small room. It would be for you perfect, map which is one small room with spawn points, you don't need more!

Sarcasm usually comes into play when one runs out of valueable things to say.

Majster wrote:I don't see your point with NYC_Statue, it's nice map really. I can't understand what problem you have with rest of maps. Abbotabad, Snorbans_Final, Stalkyard and Turnpike are maps in size similar to Smuggler, where you can find your enemy easily. DressingRoom is very small map and there is no problem with finding players. I can only agree with Yard8, where you have to searching for people, but it's medium size map, good for 5 players and more.

NYC Statue is absolutely terrible, if you can't see why, i can't tell you why. That other map with the inside and outside areas is good too, is it Abbotabad? The one with that spawn with the forklift infront, and the reception counters etc, i like that one cos its mostly on the one floor. The dock map is too big and everybody moans when it comes on.

Majster wrote:I started playing in 2005, so don't lecture me. I played in 2006 on Gamemajor, where was Smuggler, Zan-goh, TunnelNetwork and Smuggles. I see same maps on THC Server now. Playing all time on same maps gives fun - thats your opinion. I know many 0 augs players also and belive me, they want new
maps. Without new maps, 0 augs was very boring. Thats why I started play Altfire in 2010, I was looking for something new. Chinny's server made 0 augs again enjoyable and there are decent maps, but you and people like you are blind and don't see it. Unfortunately, more players aren't blind.
You are talking about clan wars, but there is no decent 0 augs clan. There is no clan wars. Anyway, clan wars are 4vs4 or 5vs5 usually. For example Stalkyard can be same good for clan war as Smuggler, I am sure.

I took a leap and presumed you hadn't played for that long based on what you say about the classic 0 aug maps, but either way, i doubt the same maps make people leave... look at CSS, Deus ex shares that same feature of most people wanting the basics, although not anywhere near as active as CSS.

You're correct there are no clan wars, but do you think playing in big maps will help that? or help people improve their reactions? I certainly don't, if im heading a clan i'd want my players to be spamming the metabolic end product out of Smuggler, Iceworld and Pool before anything else.

Majster wrote:I have been playing since 2005. It's 7 years, only one less than you. Since GODZ Server dead I became only 0 augs players, because I didn't like servers with mods (like Altfire for example) and augged servers. I played on Gamemajor, DXMS Server, The [Z] Clan Server, RTK Server and many others, what I don't remember now. I am talking from posiotion of player. I know what I am talking about. I joined into FGS as warrior and I am still a warrior. I have made only one simple map and still learning, I can't call myself as mapper.

I can understand you a bit. After GODZ dead, I missed to GODZ Server. Me and PolishEagle had our server with GODZ gametype and only with GODZ maps. We didn't want host server with another maps, even if was better than GODZ maps. You still love this old worse maps, but If you don't change your attitude, you will leave DXMP faster. Let's check ATDM Servers, Face's server with Aliens mod, Altfire and you will see DXMP is mix of many gametypes and maps. You don't have to stay in "vegetation".

I've also played in those servers, and i must have on a much more regular basis because each of those servers had samiliar issues, the [Z] server lost all clues on what maps to host which is why it remained a ghost house before they closed it. RTK was strong from start to finish because although they added newer maps, they kept the old ones there and they were voted far more. DXMS owned from start to finish because all of DXMS's maps were small, simple, and 0 aug orientated. GODZ was probably the most fun but i believe if they didn't use LAMS or HE20 ammo those bigger maps would not have been wanted, or atleast as much.

I play all gametypes, ATDM, BTDM, DXAG, CTF, Altfire, Alien Mod, all sorts, they're all fun in their own right, Altfire had a surge in popularity because of maps like Pacman which drew in alot of people, and notice that Altfire picked up dramatically when it came around again in 2008 because 0 augs was on the decline after the closure of RTK who i believe were the only clan with a 0 aug server at that point.

maps like iceworld and pool are terrible for 0-a, too small and simple, most maps on fgs 0-a are too big and complex, not simple enough for 0-a.
This is why maps like Smuggler, Mini_Dust, Stalkyard are perfect for 0-a. They don't involve running around spraying or camping with rifles like iceworld, that's what CoD is for... neither do they involve running around looking for elevators and vents to find the next enemy, that's what RPG mods are for.

Fear wrote:*INCORRECT BUZZER* - If a player is killed when their sphere runs out, it's their own fault for being slow to either equip or get out of there, correct me if i'm wrong but isn't it possible to collect 3 weapons (not equip) and walk into half-safety before you can be damaged, yes it is, therefore you are wrong.

You understood bad me. I know when player is killed it's his fault, even in spawn point. I never complain about spawn kills itself. I just don't like, when sprawn kills are part of the gameplay, that is in case of Pool and MiniDust.

Fear wrote:NYC Statue is absolutely terrible, if you can't see why, i can't tell you why.

De gustibus est non disputandum.

Fear wrote:That other map with the inside and outside areas is good too, is it Abbotabad? The one with that spawn with the forklift infront, and the reception counters etc, i like that one cos its mostly on the one floor.

No, it's Turnpike.

Fear wrote:The dock map is too big and everybody moans when it comes on.

Kalman released new version recently. This map is smaller and better now.

Fear wrote:I took a leap and presumed you hadn't played for that long based on what you say about the classic 0 aug maps, but either way, i doubt the same maps make people leave... look at CSS, Deus ex shares that same feature of most people wanting the basics, although not anywhere near as active as CSS.

Do you mean Counter Strike Source? I dislike CS personally, but my brother and some friends like this game. I heard Source is the newest game from CS series, but the the worst also.
About classic maps. I don't say these maps are metabolic end product, I can sometimes play it. I just don't like play all time same maps.

Fear wrote:You're correct there are no clan wars, but do you think playing in big maps will help that? or help people improve their reactions? I certainly don't, if im heading a clan i'd want my players to be spamming the metabolic end product out of Smuggler, Iceworld and Pool before anything else.

But... What is big maps in your eyes? Any examples? For me, big map is for example Area51, Cathedral and CMD. Silo is medium size map and Smuggler is small map. I think only Yard8 and JailBreak are only medium size maps on FGS 0 augs server. There is no really big map, like CMD for example. The most maps are in Smuggler size or smaller, so it's good.
About reactions, I don't care it. Deus Ex is a game, I play games for fun. It isn't a sport, I don't have to train. Skill of play this game comes itself. I wouldn't be happy in your clan, because no one will tell me what I have to do. If I prepare for a clan war, I will play many types of maps, especially these where will be played matches.

Fear wrote:I've also played in those servers, and i must have on a much more regular basis because each of those servers had samiliar issues, the [Z] server lost all clues on what maps to host which is why it remained a ghost house before they closed it. RTK was strong from start to finish because although they added newer maps, they kept the old ones there and they were voted far more. DXMS owned from start to finish because all of DXMS's maps were small, simple, and 0 aug orientated. GODZ was probably the most fun but i believe if they didn't use LAMS or HE20 ammo those bigger maps would not have been wanted, or atleast as much.

What nick name used you in GODZ Server times? Maybe I remember you. ^^

Fear wrote:I play all gametypes, ATDM, BTDM, DXAG, CTF, Altfire, Alien Mod, all sorts

Oh, my fault, sorry. I thought you play only 0 augs.

Gamesmajor was 2006?!?!?! Oh my god time flies what the hell.

Anyway I agree with fear on spawnkilling, it's really up to the spawning player to react quickly. A group of people camping a spawn can be lame though.

yeah that's exactly what goes on in iceworld, there is on spawn killing as such but players always camp by the spawns there, making no real use of the map, most fighting goes on at the spawnpoints and not even in the sides of the map, where others just spawn and then sit there with sniper. it's a bad map.

Yeah spawnkilling is lame, agreed. There will always be a big vs small map argument, I like to make maps of all sizes so there's something for everyone, having said that I don't go too big so I'm more biased to a small/medium map (my medium is smaller then most people's medium!).

I agree with half of what Majster is saying and half of what Fear is saying, you both know what you like and you are both right in half of your cases in my opinion. I too played in the same servers as you two from 2005, DXMS and Gamesmajor were my favourite servers, back then I was a no nonesense 0-augger like Fear. Although I did appreciate the new maps and became interested in some basic mapping in 2006 when I joined DXMS (Deus Ex Mappers Society). Sadly the leader Jon was too much of a dictator for my liking and none of my or Shadowrunners maps got published which I thought was very uninspiring, I always wanted to have a 0-augs server that did things better then DXMS - one that was more democratic!

I remember Z server barely, I remember the stepping stones map - yeah walk rather then run thanks it only took me a year to figure that one out! All of these 0-aug server did have at least a couple of large maps RTK included so I think 0-augs does have a place for 2-3 big maps on a rotation of 10-12 map or so. Area51 Bunker is often used in clan wars which to me is a huge map, so I think there's good reason to fight on larger maps in term of preparing for clan wars - Silo is pretty big with large open spaces at points, same with CMD although less open.

I think Iceworld really suffers from bad weapon placement, if you're like me then you have to go to one end of the "weapon rack" to the other to pick up your three weps which often means your weaving in and out of spawning teammates - this is where DXMS failed again - lack of beta testing - something that I think the FGS 0-augs server does in abundance.

Personally I enjoy all map sizes although I can tire of playing too many large maps - that's the old 0-aug no nonesense player side coming out of me! Anyway this was a nice topic to read.

12 votes all for cs office. holy sheeeet! those votes should be for mini dust