Improper behaviour

[-Majin-]

Your daddy..Nobody..

[~][FGS][Nobody~]

I have the urge to make all your posts PINK again... so DON'T MAKE ME!

[Shades]

Well I am 99% sure now that my screenshots do not show Blade going on a TK spree.... this time.

I killed an enemy (psycho) with 1 GEP rocket that also killed Fury. For which I was banned.

No you weren't banned, and you already know this full-well, as you re-join in the next map.

None of what you have shown are teamkills

Well, Blade, on this particular occasion it would appear that you have slipped through my grasp. Once again you come out smelling of roses. Congratulations. On the bright side, at least now your gaying alias 'P1ayer' has been exposed. There are, of course, countless other logs of you teamkilling. I might as well post an example since no one believes me anyway.

Here you are killing your teammate MRTEAMER (output of text search for 'P1ayer' in server.log ).

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ScriptLog: P1ayer_322(5) killed Player_568 with a LAW Rocket!
ScriptLog: P1ayer_322(5) killed MRTEAMER with a LAW Rocket!
ScriptLog: P1ayer_322(5) killed P1ayer_322 with a LAW Rocket!
ScriptLog: P1ayer_322(5) killed MRTEAMER with a LAW Rocket!
ScriptLog: P1ayer_322(5) killed MRTEAMER with a LAW Rocket!
ScriptLog: P1ayer_322(5) killed MRTEAMERNone
ScriptLog: P1ayer_322(5) killed MRTEAMER with a LAW Rocket!
ScriptLog: Player_568(2) killed P1ayer_322 with a GEP Rocket!
ScriptLog: P1ayer_322(5) killed Player_568 with a GEP Rocket!
ScriptLog: rodyaj(6) killed P1ayer_322 with an Assault Rifle!
ScriptLog: rodyaj(6) killed P1ayer_322 with a Sniper Rifle!

And here you encourage others to teamkill:

Say: P1ayer_322(5): dont talk to him
Say: P1ayer_322(5): just teamkill him

As for the cheating issue:

4. You are calling numerous decent players cheaters

Show me where I am doing this.

it turns out that no such evidence exists

But it does exist; it just isn't reliable evidence.

and you are not willing to give to anyone

I gave all my evidence to developers. But fine, since people are so insistent, I'll just release it for everyone. Just watch now as everyone makes the same mistakes I have lately and misinterprets the data.

and expect everyone to believe it.

I've already said that the evidence is unreliable. I don't expect anyone to believe it.

The 'evidence'

There is a bug in miniMTL where people are logged as cheating when they leave the server quickly after entering. This leaves a blank cheat output like this:

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MiniMTL: Possible cheat detected:
MiniMTL: Player Caught:   .
MiniMTL: Player Address:  . 
MiniMTL: Cheat Found: Invalid Console class Detected. ()

This output happens quite a lot. But only 4 players in all our logs get some of the fields filled in:

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MiniMTL: Possible cheat detected: 
MiniMTL: Player Caught:   agent009.
MiniMTL: Player Address:  94.xxx.xx.xxx:xxxx.
MiniMTL: Cheat Found: Invalid Console class Detected. ()

Now before I even go into anything else, let me make it clear that I don't think anyone cheats. Oh, well apart from LOSC who at least tries to (and usually fails). Imo, though, the reason why the suspect's details show up is because their pings are so high that the delay causes their details to get registered, whereas others get disconnected before the registration takes place.

And here is an explanation from [FGS]Nobody:

Hello Shades,

your interpretation is correct.

I don't know what Dejavu changed on miniMTL after he stole the source code but if the anti hax protection is still working the way I once programmed it, then it does the following..

When a player joins, miniMTL initiates a delayed check for stuff like custom console classes.
The delay is done because DX needs some time, until replication works reliable for a player after his/her join.
After the check is instigated, further seconds pass before the result is evaluated.

So let's evaluate your first case.
A player joins and immediately leaves again. There it couldn't get any information from the player because the player is not present anymore.
I bet your server log also contains some accessed none warning right before the 'possible cheat detected' message.
I admit, this is definitely a false alert and a weakness of the check, I made for miniMTL 6 years ago. It could have been catched by further checks.

Now your second case.
A player joins and doesn't leave but then (s)he gets kicked along with the 'possible cheat detected' message. As you'll have noticed, it shows more information, such as player name, IP-address, etc, aleady. It only doesn't show the class name of the custom/invalid console class. In case of a custom console class, it should show the corresponding class name within the parenthesis after the 'Invalid Console class Detected.' message
As mentioned above, it initiates the check and waits some seconds before evaluating the result. Usually those wait time is sufficient. However, on a massive lag impact the time could exceed and the result is evaluated before it arrived from the client.
Since no result is treated as wrong result, the player gets kicked along with the message:

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MiniMTL: Cheat Found: Invalid Console class Detected. ()

If no result was returned from the client, the parenthesis are empty, which results in showing such a message.
Unlike the first case, the cheat found message of the second case is no weakness in the code of miniMTL.

The reason for treateing no result is as wrong result is the following..
Although it's very unlikely, there's the possibility that the missing check result was not caused by lag but by a haxor attempting to bypass the protection.
I admit, the chance for this is approx 5% but in my opinion it was enough to take that into account.
So for your calm.. in 95% of invalid console class cheat detections with EMPTY parenthesis, it's lag and not really a haxor.

HOWEVER, if you got a message like:

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MiniMTL: Possible cheat detected:
MiniMTL: Player Caught:   agent009.
MiniMTL: Player Address:  94.xxx.xx.xxx:xxxx.
MiniMTL: Cheat Found: Invalid Console class Detected. (Funbot.FunbotC)

Then you can be 100% sure to have catched a cheater because in that case it definitely got all information and you even know what the player used to cheat, when you look at the parenthesis in the last line.

Alright, that's the input from my end.
Sorry for the long reply but I had the urge to clear up some mysteries about the miniMTL protection.
Thus feel free to post the content of this PM to your forum or to other people who feel uncertain about miniMTL's oddities.


regards,
Nobody

Conclusion: there is only a 5% chance the four players were hacking. So I don't see the point in actively pursuing these four. More than likely they just had bad pings.

Even so, we must keep that 5% chance in the back of our minds. Duke claims that miniMTL detection can be circumvented by byte-hacking it to have an identical file-size, but different code.

[FGS]Nobody has more or less agreed that his claim is at least possible:

The partially filled in message of your second example can be caused by the attempt to byte-hack miniMTL. That are those 5%.
The player name and the player IP are values, that can be obtained by the server without the cooperation of the client because it's serverside.
However the name of the console class requires the client's cooperation because this information just resides on the client end.
If no such information is returned by the client, it can either be caused by the lag or by a hacker that byte-hacked miniMTL to get it not to answer the server's request.
It's not possible to determine if that behaviour is caused by the 95% chance of lag or by the 5% chance of a haxor.
I can just advice to be attentive but not to rush the fences.
I'm not officially related to the current miniMTL anymore but my security code still resides in the mod.
Thus, don't hesitate to consult me on uncertainties about such cheat found warnings.

Here are the four players who showed up with non-blank cheat messages :

DJ
LOSC
Blade
Some Australian guy who resurrects dead clans

DJ and Blade insisted on seeing the 'evidence', so there you go. And LOSC will take great pride in being associated with this thread.

Let us now look at why I now don't suspect them. DJ is from the Middle East, right? AceFighterz is from Australia. Blade often lags out like heck on his wireless/tethered connection, and LOSC is just always up to no good with VPNs and what not (that screenie of someone hacking in our server earlier in this thread was an unknown French IP btw). So to reiterate, I think lag is the reason why these guys show up different than everybody else.

But before I knew about miniMTL log bugs, all I could see in front of me was four players of shady character. Let us look at the profile of these characters. One ex-cheater (DJ), one proud-cheater (LOSC), one person who would like to see [A!B] server lose popularity (Blade), and one strange kid who resurrects numerous clans. This is why these coincidences caught my attention.

Add to this the fact LOSC came up in the logs saying this:

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Say: (NKZ)LOSC(13): HHAHAH I Found Aimbot hahhaha !!!
...
Say: (NKZ)LOSC(13): GO TO BLADE he Give the AIMBOT <----- hahah$
...
Say: (NKZ)LOSC(13): And Phantom give the Old Aimbot the last Week
...
Say: (NKZ)LOSC(13): you add List Engine Engine
Say: (NKZ)LOSC(13): and add .Dll
...
Say: (NKZ)LOSC(13): Add the Aimbot.Dll in Winject
...
Say: (NKZ)LOSC(13): oups with my aimbot kill teamkilling xd

Did I ever believe this was anything more than a massive troll? No. But there are some elements of truth in his speech, e.g., a Google search turns up Winject as a real tool used to circumvent anti-cheat.

Add to that the fact DJ, Phantom and three others were all using the 'agentxxx' alias in our server at different times (for some reason that I still can't figure out).

All conjecture I know; and exactly the reason why I didn't post it in the first place. So yea, shoot me down and ridicule me, but I was entitled to do my own little private investigation. The fact that some info got leaked and people started to confuse facts and make targeted accusations is not down to me. I tried to keep it a private investigation, but in the end I've had to show my hand.

[-Majin-]

Hm shades ur ruining my spam topic!

I'll dig around and see if I can help you a lil more.. I'll contact some old [4] members.. maybe they can decode this further.

[~DJ~]

I have never used an alias ever named as 'agent' or anything like that, can you please provide logs and other stuff publicly as well? Mine atleast? you have stated the following two:
a) me with the alias 'agentxxxx' log
b) blank cheat message log

so can I see both of em'?

[Kaiden]

Maybe ANNA should log more details, such as team switches and teamkills.

That's not its job though really, It's meant to just be a clean simple and secure gametype, not much else.

This thread is atrocious and the fact its continued past page 5 is a mockery. All it is is some unfounded accusations followed up by 9 pages of whining about someone aliasing which no one cares about because everyone does/can do it anyway. Jeez never seen so many people QQ about team killing since VincentMCDOOM.

EDIT: And let's just add that actual hackers aren't going to be caught by MTL's basic checks anyway.

[-Majin-]

Ima dl an aimbot.. To catch one you must have one Trolololo

[Shades]

I have never used an alias ever named as 'agent' or anything like that, can you please provide logs and other stuff publicly as well? Mine atleast? you have stated the following two:
a) me with the alias 'agentxxxx' log
b) blank cheat message log

so can I see both of em'?

Well do you mind me showing your IP publically? This isn't 100% you I suppose. It is from the Middle East and supposedly there is only one other active player from the Middle East apart from you. You are from the Middle East, right? I guess I don't know it is you for sure; this is why I didn't even want to show the evidence in the first place. As I've said: evidence is unreliable.

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MiniMTL: Possible cheat detected:
MiniMTL: Player Caught:   agent009.
MiniMTL: Player Address:  94.xxx.xx.xxx:xxxx.
MiniMTL: Cheat Found: Invalid Console class Detected. ()

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inetnum:        94.xxx.x.x - x
netname:        ADSL-LNS3
descr:          Jordan Telecom Group (Orange)
descr:          for ADSL customers

[-Majin-]

That's why this game was fine the way it was.. No upgrades into mtl.. It's already buggy you guys just adding more to it. You think you're fixing it but you ain't. Youre making this game less playable. -_-

[~][FGS][Nobody~]

Majin, that's naive. You're obviously having no clue what's all possible with plain old MTL installed only.
Let's go to an empty MTL server and I'll show you, then you'll propably change your mind.

[-Majin-]

Bet you I won't..

And ontop of all that.. You are disallowing the good and bad natures of playing the game. No matter how hard you try and work on this game, It won't be perfect.. You can call me naive or whatever.. But what Im speaking is the truth.. And you can't hide from it. Remember In 2005 how many players enjoyed playin this game? What was fun? All the crazy metabolic end product we did together lam bug, water bug, shot time all that sh1t.. Back then there was 30 players in just 2 servers.. Now days cuz of all the rules you can barely find 10 players in one server.

[~][FGS][Nobody~]

You are disallowing the good and bad natures of playing the game.

If that's the penalty for averting cheaters running around with god mode, infinite bio and infinite ammunition, then I can bear that.

No matter how hard you try and work on this game, It won't be perfect..

Since I'm realist, it's never been my intension to make it perfect but to make it fair.

Remember In 2005 how many players enjoyed playin this game?

Back in the days, there were more players simply because the game wasn't that old yet and the major metabolic end product that occurred later on, didn't happen yet. I bet things would be better these days, if we had had Nephthys and ANNA 7 years ago already.

What was fun? All the crazy metabolic end product we did together lam bug, water bug, shot time all that sh1t..

Sure it was.. to an extend, but it wasn't the solely condition to play DXMP.

Back then there was 30 players in just 2 servers.. Now days cuz of all the rules you can barely find 10 players in one server.

That might be true but as I said before.. there's no causal relationship to disallowing bugs... unless your only definition of having fun in DXMP is to exploit bugs etc..

Bet you I won't..

Yes, I would. Since you're just talking of minor bugs that disturb the game, you should get an impression of how a game could be really ruined in order to comprehend why we're doing all the effort with miniMTL/CRD back then and ANNA these days.

[-Majin-]

Obviously you ain't stopping cheaters from Doin their old habits cuz you still supposedly got ppl passing aimbots to eachother.

No matter what you do as a whole, there will always be a backdoor to that plan. Always has and always will be. you're not an antivirus.. You're an antivirus that has been infected.(not you personally, speaking of dxmp). Even thought I haven't been around for about a year now.. I still know what's going on more often than dxmp police do.

[~][FGS][Nobody~]

Obviously you ain't stopping cheaters from Doin their old habits cuz you still supposedly got ppl passing aimbots to eachother.

I partially agree. I can provide the tools/mods to avert cheats. However, I can neither avert the mob to exchange and try cheats, nor can I make the hosters to use the tools/mods to protect their servers. The best protection is obsolete if it's not being used.

You're an antivirus that has been infected.(not you personally, speaking of dxmp).

WÜT, that goes beyond my imagination now.

Even thought I haven't been around for about a year now.. I still know what's going on more often than dxmp police do.

Uhh, I assume you didn't get to know ANNA yet.

[-Majin-]

I knew a female named Anna