Applying: Shadowrunner

[Cozmo]

It's not shitty, it's adequate.
People leaving the clan had their reasons to leave.
In this case the trial time will ensure that those people are convinced of the clan like it is now.

I know don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be an arse or awkward. Just thought I'd state my opinion wasn't trying to start an argument.

DO YOU WANT TO FIGHT??!

But yeah ... welcome back Shadow! XD

[Alessi]

It's not shitty, it's adequate.
People leaving the clan had their reasons to leave.
In this case the trial time will ensure that those people are convinced of the clan like it is now.

I know don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be an arse or awkward. Just thought I'd state my opinion wasn't trying to start an argument.

DO YOU WANT TO FIGHT??!

But yeah ... welcome back Shadow! XD

Hahaha yeah..on another note..wb shadow hahaha

[ShadowRunner]

To answer Nobody,

I don't feel it is shitty, I just feel I have failed in some way in this application.

1. I doubt my name and the tag fit properly with ~.

2. I didn't join another clan, despite several offers. I didn't start one. I didn't remove "FGS" from any forum account name. In fact I have never been in any other clan in the last 6 years, except when I was newb for a few weeks. I quit a REN trial to continue FGS, so I wonder how many FGS have only ever been in one clan for that long? All my EM correspondance was with the FGS tag. To be asked if I am serious makes me feel like I have failed. It doesn't make you feel like complaining, just makes you concerned, I applied because I thought there were no issues between myself and FGS.

I can understand why FGS might want a trial but I've already apologized, I was shocked when I came back from a break to hear about cheating and see admins firing neutrons from shock rifles and yeah, I'm sure no-one wants to revisit the argument, I made a mistake, I left over personal differences of opinion, it was not any issue to do with FGS itself, but that point seems to have been lost. My mistake was to put my personal differences before the clan itself. If any of those issues still existed, I wouldn't have re-applied. By re-applying is it not very obvious that I am eating much humble pie? Even Kaiden couldn't resist How much humble pie is needed exactly and for how long?

3. Did we not set up a FB group, moddb page, is it not 60th out of 17,000 right now? Do I just play DX or do I do stuff with other FGS members and spend time with them? I seriously don't know what else I could do to prove commitment to FGS or DXMP or FGS members. I put myself down for UR project, Cozmo and Hengsha, plus I was an avid SG fan and still work on them, plus I am ready anytime to convert the WW2 stuff to either a giant RPG or AG maps or both. Chinny works harder, but I try.

4. I must have talked about re-applying with half the clan first or vice versa, they talked to me. I do regret not joining last Christmas when Kosh asked, but I have been telling people for months that I would get around to re-applying after hard work on Hengsha and then the work took longer and longer. I don't know why this has come as such a surprise and people are asking me if this is a genuine application.

5. I am really surprised most of all, because I don't swear hardly, I don't massacre relentlessly too often, I always teach people altfire bind or forum address etc, I'm not the best player in the world, but I don't swear, admin abuse, insult other clans, mess up the teams, bug (except floor nades), I dont quit battles, reset scores, I don't hang out with any former antagonists of FGS, I didn't rival you guys, start a clan, or badmouth you, so yes, it does come as a surprise.

Well thank you very much for considering the application and inviting me to trial, it was actually an application for full membership and nothing more, so I am confused about the "convinced" issue, I don't see what change I can bring if I am just a member. If you don't mind I'd like to think about your offer.

[~][FGS][Nobody~]

You've always been a creative entity within this community and I've always valued that,
especially since I'm not capable of showing such an engagement at the moment.
The trial is not about your modding/mapping/activity related qualification because that's beyond dispute.
The trial is to prove your conviction towards FGS.
You've told that you're always be FGS deep in your heart but it's important that you can still identify with FGS and its members like it is now.
I also know that you think me being the root of all evil and I was simply unable to convince you of the opposite.
That resulted in your feeling to get suppressed by me.. especially according to a second altfire server.

So if it helps your thoughts with FGS.. feel free to set up a second altfire server with whatever configuration you desire and we'll see if that's a good or a bad decision. You have my blessing.

Deal or no deal?

[Kaiden]

Ah that's why applications are locked after a decision is made in every community, I always wondered.

[ShadowRunner]

The trial is to prove your conviction towards FGS.
You've told that you're always be FGS deep in your heart but it's important that you can still identify with FGS and its members like it is now.

So you think I don't realize FGS has changed or that you do a good job?

Am I really the same person as 3 years ago?

You seem to have convinced yourself that I applied to have arguments with you about servers and make a war with you, it's total many metabolic end product and totally unfair, there is no evidence to support this whacky theory.

Where exactly did I go wrong? I spend practically ALL my time with FGS members at the moment.

[ShadowRunner]

I made the choice to identify with you Nobody, not with HK, or any of the other 4? clans that offered.
As I said, it's not shitty, it's worrying, did you get put in a freezer in 2009 and defrosted last week?

I also know that you think me being the root of all evil and I was simply unable to convince you of the opposite.

You actually have spoken to me less than other members recently but you seem more qualified to judge than them?
This is what makes you an annoying person. I'm trying to have a conversation with you about the trial and you are basically lying about me, I have never said this or anything like this. Doesn't seem like much conversation here is possible.

For the record Sonny, I'm not a founder member, I was "caretaker" leader along with Majestic, Kuch and now it's Nobody. I didn't start DXMP until 2005.

I think you're making a mistake to bring up the past in this topic. Also I don't see the point Kaiden has been trying to get at. I'd rather keep my friends in FGS than tell you where to shove your trial, because clearly you're still living in the past and I'm a terrorist hacker who thinks you are and Kaiden are evil. You've been like this since we ripped your head off when you first joined, it was nothing personal, we were both misinformed.

I apologized, said I was wrong, and I accepted a demotion, but even before I replied to your acceptance post, you're STILL talking about the past.

If this was a test, sorry I failed, I didn't expect people to rub the past in my face in an app topic or before I even replied to the blimmin post. And like I said, thank you for the offer, I would like to think about it. Like I said, I don't think it even fits... By offering a trial only, do you not think Nobody, that perhaps it's not me who is living in the past.

[~DJ~]

Mind that the trial was a mutual decision and was discussed amongst the FGS members..
It is not only Nobody. If someone were to have a disagreement with this decision within the clan, this was not supposed to happen. That's a fact.
In the end we decided that it would be for the best to put you in a trial... you can see that how it can prove to every FGS member, which you may have not been interacting to-- which have only read the topics of the 'past'-- to be convinced of you.

this would really show your allegiance to the clan..
Keep in mind that the trial period is for two months maximum, and it doesn't have to be two months..

[~][FGS][Nobody~]

The trial is to prove your conviction towards FGS.
You've told that you're always be FGS deep in your heart but it's important that you can still identify with FGS and its members like it is now.

So you think I don't realize FGS has changed or that you do a good job?

Am I really the same person as 3 years ago?

You seem to have convinced yourself that I applied to have arguments with you about servers and make a war with you, it's total many metabolic end product and totally unfair, there is no evidence to support this whacky theory.

Where exactly did I go wrong? I spend practically ALL my time with FGS members at the moment.

Rollo, what shall I just do with you...
The intension of my reply was to budge an inch by offering you what you've always desired and you right misinterpret that as reopening old sores.

You actually have spoken to me less than other members recently but you seem more qualified to judge than them?

Yes, I didn't talk to you in order to avoid the fear of interrupting your work with potential arguments because as I said, I value your work.
And no, I am not more qualified to judge. That's why we have established a democratic poll system so ALL members can judge themself.

By offering a trial only, do you not think Nobody, that perhaps it's not me who is living in the past.

Jesus.. I knew it was a bad idea to announce the application result myself. Why didn't I just listen to myself. Now exactly THAT happened what I feared.
You think that I forced the trial to be applied, while I was just the messenger, who announced it at the end.
Do not judge the messenger!


Could you imagine that I am tired of that arguments too?
I do not want arguments. I want peace after all.

[~[FGS]SaSQuATcH~]

Like we all said, the trial is the result of a mutual decision, in fact we haven't admitted anyone without a trial probably for years. We are not planning to change this at the moment. If you cannot accept this, if you cannot accept FGS as it is, then you'll need more time to think about your application.

The trial is the most FGS can offer you at the moment and depending on how you respond to the offer will influence our attitude towards you in the future. You posted an application with the intention of rejoining our clan so this is not the time for you to start making individual comments on our members. The fact that you didn't clear your differences with current members before applying is not our fault either.

Your commitment to the game and FGS is out of question, what we are worried about is exactly what's about to happen: FGS bashing on FGS. You don't have to wear the tag in game, you may still choose to remain Shadowrunner until your trial expires. We all know that your contributions to DXMP has always been valuable and we decided that we'd be happy to see you in our team again. Think of your trial as an extension of your application if you like, this rule hasn't changed since you quit FGS. I hope you'll accept things the way they are and we can move on.

[chin.democ.]

The trial thing is how we do things now and how it's been for some time now, why should we make an exception?, that would not be fair on those that have applied in the last year or so that had to have a mandatory trial period.

I personally don't see what the big deal is.

[Mastakilla]

The trial thing is how we do things now and how it's been for some time now, why should we make an exception?, that would not be fair on those that have applied in the last year or so that had to have a mandatory trial period.

I personally don't see what the big deal is.

Thish trish

[ShadowRunner]

YESTERDAY

The trial is to prove your conviction towards FGS.
...but it's important that you can still identify with FGS and its members like it is now.
I also know that you think me being the root of all evil...

TODAY

The trial thing is how we do things now and how it's been for some time now, why should we make an exception?

The way I see things, Sonny just spoke his mind, he wasn't expecting that someone would start arguing with him.
I too was not expecting that someone would make an offer and before I have REPLIED, same person is then creating a debate about trial being necessary because there were past personal issues and I need to prove something "important".

I did not even speak and people were already arguing over trial. Then when I did speak, 80% of the questions I asked were not addressed, but a second reply with further PAST personal issues came up. This wasn't exactly a quiet, peaceful or friendly application acceptance or explanation/negotiation of trial.

When someone offers you the olive branch of peace, you don't laugh at it unless you're prepared for a war. You must have realized that I would try to put a case for no trial, based on current reasons not past reasons. All this has been even BEFORE I replied, is about past grudges, it's disappointing.

Chin, if you don't think my contribution or behaviour is exceptional then perhaps I'm in the wrong place, well this is an application topic. One of you seems determined to prove I am a terrorist hacker who thinks he is evil. It was an exceptional application also, because it was former leader, demoted in his absence, he accepted this, but it wasn't enough humble pie for some members, you complain about the arrogance of other clans, but hey, what's this... offer the guy a trial AND lie about him in his app topic?

[chin.democ.]

The trial is mandatory for all applicants that pass the initial voting phase, it's been that way for a long time now. Everyone is welcome to speak their minds, we are all individuals here.

I don't see anyone arguing over the trial as it was decided democratically some days ago, it's either trial or a failed application.

[ShadowRunner]

If so, why say something completely different yesterday, which involves mentioning past personal issues and making accusations that I think someone evil?

If so, why is there no discussion or any real explanation of trial and what is expected, or answers to questions? All I'm hearing is that it is necessary and that I think people are evil and other personal crap.

I didn't actually turn it down, I just said that I would need to think about and I tried to make some points for exception, but I am a bit shocked now. Once again thank you for the offer, but it now doesn't seem like the right time, I obviously made a mistake, I thought people could move on, but this application has unfortunately dragged up past feelings and issues amongst people it seems. I probably would have accepted a trial, but I think it was wrong perhaps to just announce it without discussion, you've already demoted me, removed me from private section and when I was a member arguing, you did dictate and intervene over maplist, servers etc, so you have had your cake and eaten it, what more do you want, you want to mess up this topic with many metabolic end product about me too?

Now you have gone too far and basically insulted people as usual unnecessarily. The goalposts are changing as usual, yesterday trial was because of past bull, today it's normal. Quite unnecessary and to be honest outrageous behaviour, to get personal as a reason for trial, then the next day insist it is normal.

I'm done, just wasting my time here.