The [FGS] Clan

omg KillingM gonna map?

awesome...

I'll line Face up for the onslaught, judging is not going to be quick, there are so many entries now... even 15 mins rotations will take a long time

Q Are all the map entries going to be publicly hosted? if so is the feed back from the players going to effect the overall judgement of map's? very quiet in forums so hers a thought I will throw in for people to talk about

In an ideal world, all maps would get hosted on aug and 0A servers and we'd leave it for about a week and judges would watch players. I won't discount player feedback, but if it differs, I will take it with a pinch of salt until we see the evidence in gameplay ourselves. I expect player feedback though to be largely consistent. So yes, hosting is important to judging.

Judges decisions should be final with Face getting chair position, being the industry-experienced, my 2 cents.
Players should judge too and I think they will be invaluable in playing the maps and providing info relatively quickly on issues which aren't spotted in solo plays. Definitely Judges should watch battles I think.

Players should form judgements but not be able to override judges decision. If that was the case, Mini_Dust and NYC_Statue would have been removed from FGS 0A server. Taking Mini-Dust as an example, experienced players tend to be quite derisive of the map and complain, seeing it from the rifler point of view. They think purely from their own point of view and not that of all players. So player feedback needs to be consistent and generally unanimous, or us judges will be taking it with a pinch of salt. The perfect 0A rifle map is not going to win if it's uselss to auggers or low tech players, we are looking for creativity, originality and gameplay. Gameplay means all players, all skills, all weps etc. So for example, Mini-Dust and Statue beat Bound.

Also the players testing, need to be a good mix of skills, gametype preference and experience. You can see already, some maps are considering augged play and others are yet to show evidence of there being features useful for auggers.

I think however there should be an overall player's favourite and if that isn't the judges, then a separate award.

As for hosting, I'll have a chat with Face and Chinny, but I'm sure between us, we can manage this.

FACE was interested on a half-way interim judge of the maps to guide the mappers in the right direction giving them time to implement any changes in order to make the most of their maps. I think it's a great idea and the perfect date for this would be in or around the 1st May, so if anyone's interested on getting early feedback please post your maps in your mapping threads or send me a pm if you prefer.

As I said in the other thread, I totally agree with Face, I think a few thoughts on each map from Judges will really help the second phase develop.

If there is a map that gets created which is suitable for augs, and people agree that it's suitable, then I'll host them on AB ATDM UK

I may put in an entry for this

I'm sure a lot of people would like to see that.

@ Psycho, while it's a generous offer, my thoughts are wondering if the maps should be hosted at the same time in the same place. Would it influence the player vote if say 4 augged maps were hosted on your server, while others were struggling to be seen. Also players may draw inference from your choices of hosting. Probably we need to figure out the judges/player process and how the public will have their say etc. Judging by mapvote isn't particularly fair either, unless all votes are counted. Fast action maps tend to cause players to vote the nearest map rather than search the map they would really like etc. Does any of this matter, or should we just let people host their maps where they want to, even before judges and players have seen them all? Would having a server purely for challenge maps, hosting them in rotation, would this be better or make no difference?

ShadowRunner wrote:Judging by mapvote isn't particularly fair either, unless all votes are counted. Fast action maps tend to cause players to vote the nearest map rather than search the map they would really like etc.

The issue I would have with Mapvote here is not what people choose, but how are they going to know what they're choosing? All of the maps are going to be new content (hopefully) so with only a name to go on, what can you do?

Best practice would be to have one hub hosting all of the maps in rotation (as was stated). Possibly two hubs (one for aug - probably ATDM, one for 0-aug)

Having said that, we have to ask just how important player feedback (if any is given) is actually going to be to the judging process...

Agreed then. Mapvote wont' mean anything. I think player feedback will be useful with 2 main things, speeding up the assessment of maps and also discovering what the map is like in actual public server gameplay. Judges can see for themselves, but stories and debriefings can be useful. We are aware of course that mappers or fellow clan members can alias

The idea of eliminating some maps quickly from the rotation is tempting, maps which have the sort of errors you would normally remove the beta and fix immediately. This is a hard part of the challenge for people as well, beta isn't as good as a perfect finished map with perfect gameplay. I haven't discussed the process details with Face, so I can only guess. When some maps surface at the top, we may disagree or agree that we can't decide, or there may be a clear winner.

The guy, who even doesn't know how edit damage of weapon in UED...
The guy, who haven't made any map...
The guy, who isn't mapper, but warrior, or even berserker...
Yes, it's me. And these reasons are good to join in 2 MB's in 2 months Mapping Challenge. I am making my first map ever.

Majster wrote:The guy, who even doesn't know how edit damage of weapon in UED...
The guy, who haven't made any map...
The guy, who isn't mapper, but warrior, or even berserker...
Yes, it's me. And these reasons are good to join in 2 MB's in 2 months Mapping Challenge. I am making my first map ever.

Good sport..good luck

Alessi wrote:Good sport..good luck

Thanks.

Awesome Majster! I'll add your name to the quite impressively long list! (although we'll see how many actually finish muhhahaaa)