Wunderland Altfire - changes on the server.

[ShadowRunner]

I was being diplomatic and mentioning all mappers in FGS that I could remember did something this year, just meaning I see no harm in an altfire type server being the better place for maptesting than the 0-aug server, for lots of reasons.

things have changed, when I started in 2005, there was grav rifle on every map, shotgun on every map and beretta on every map. Also, ppl hated bio rifle. This is another reason. The tnag replacer actually replaces more weps than we use, but we've gradually restricted the variety on some maps, while offering a greater variety on other maps. Also people generally threw lams at each other across Area 51 etc, not planted vac in doorways etc so much. Dare I say it, maps were larger as well, House Arrest, Rattery Park, 8Red, Hangar Storage, Exile, the majority were A51 sized or bigger, where grenades being thrown around in low grav were possible to dodge.

Things changed massively when I started adding extra tnag weps to maps. People started to vote for weps and grenades, spawnkilling and no-brainer kills like energy ball on pacman. Players like Axis and Prophet became a minority on the server. There is still that issue, that adding bio rifle and minigun to everything could be a real passion-killer. Some people really hate both and probably don't want all tnag weps on all maps? I have no idea really what the true demand is there.

Almost certainly I won't be able to release/update anything until after Xmas.

I know Mantra could be found, and we found Skyline's author, but Duffman and other altfire map authors I have no idea.

[[FGS]Kalman]

I want 8Red and Abandoned with Pulse Rifle, they were the best maps on Altfire

[ShadowRunner]

This is not a proposal, but just to make you aware, you have the option that AB clan have chosen, to use clanpay system and rent a box, which I have been led to believe will give at least 4 servers. Clanpay means the money doesn't go into any particular member's account, straight to the box rental people, whoever that will be. For example, let's say Chees, Cozmo, Chinny, myself and Nobody all rent a server of 14 slots or more each. The total cost is approximately twice that of getting a box. If we were really smart, all clans would get together and just do a mammoth DX package with one company perhaps.

[Majster]

I was being diplomatic and mentioning all mappers in FGS that I could remember did something this year, just meaning I see no harm in an altfire type server being the better place for maptesting than the 0-aug server, for lots of reasons.

aaaa, ok.

things have changed, when I started in 2005, there was grav rifle on every map, shotgun on every map and beretta on every map. Also, ppl hated bio rifle. This is another reason. The tnag replacer actually replaces more weps than we use, but we've gradually restricted the variety on some maps, while offering a greater variety on other maps. Also people generally threw lams at each other across Area 51 etc, not planted vac in doorways etc so much. Dare I say it, maps were larger as well, House Arrest, Rattery Park, 8Red, Hangar Storage, Exile, the majority were A51 sized or bigger, where grenades being thrown around in low grav were possible to dodge.

I like many kind of maps. I the most like maps such as EnemyAtTheGate or Imperator, but I like maps like Altfire_Prodigy also. I think the best option is mix of diffrents map, with one exception - maps can't be too big. I think the current maplist is perfect, but I would add there Proteus, NYC_Statue and 8red.

Things changed massively when I started adding extra tnag weps to maps. People started to vote for weps and grenades, spawnkilling and no-brainer kills like energy ball on pacman. Players like Axis and Prophet became a minority on the server. There is still that issue, that adding bio rifle and minigun to everything could be a real passion-killer. Some people really hate both and probably don't want all tnag weps on all maps? I have no idea really what the true demand is there.

I haven't mentioned bio rile anywhere. I think this weapon is a metabolic end product, and it's used by players called "noob". About minigun, I don't know what is bad with this gun. Minigun is nearly same as vaccum rifle, or even a bit worse.


Nobody, are you still here?

[[FGS]Chees]

The bio is fun when theirs a room full of players (not spawn room) scrambling to get a lam and you blast them all away.....MULTIKILL

[ShadowRunner]

This thread could go on forever debating maps and weps when in fact other issues have more influence on the server.

1. Inty calls people cunts with capital letters. I watched him kill a ZXC member 5 times today by planting in spawndoors and spawnringrooms. Amazing that people hang around for this kind of abuse because Inty can't take it himself. Kill him 5 times in a row with grenades OUTSIDE spawnrooms and watch what happens.

2. I see FGS members trying to organize things, but sometimes little respect for it from others, often members seem powerless to do anything and there is resentment from others that they are trying. I wonder if teambalancer would better. Seems a lot of games are ruined by people refusing to balance the numbers or skills.

[~][FGS][Nobody~]

I'm still building my list which contains suggestions about changes for the server configuration, that were made over the past pages.

[Majster]

I'm still building my list which contains suggestions about changes for the server configuration, that were made over the past pages.

What do you think to add the voting about the most important things? For example:

Do you want to remove DXMP_Cargoyard from the maplist?
-yes
-no

[ShadowRunner]

Why a vote for maps even? Stick em all on and let players decide. Nothing is a dealbreaker for me, except possibly limiting the numbers of maps on the list. Even if it means the ones at the bottom never get voted, it's better to have maps available than not. Even if it means that map gets used once per year, it was worth it.

The whole quality control argument is metabolic here if I may say, we used to host some rally basic maps like Double D's maps etc and my even earlier maps and even now players want Pacman, Prodigy and some real poor quality stuff gets voted.

We tend to share similar tastes, but players are quite diverse and like maps for different reasons. The only thing I would say, more encouragement on voting next map and the server informing players how to vote during a game, is a really good idea. This same is reason is why I don't like Pacman, Iceworld, Abandoned in low grav, or even Twinz and Prodigy sometimes, you're killed in the spawn during voting and this wasn't a problem with the old skool altfire.

Voting sounds good, the democratic FGS arcane ritual, but FGS 0-aug voting has shown that it is very misleading at times. Even including the public will still be misleading, due to language and other reasons some players don't see this forum. However I would put my faith in Nobody's experience and his logs to be well informed to cut through voting stalemates or arguments on server config.

As a mapper I don't ideally want to be in a clan where members are deciding what I can show people. I'd rather the public decide. Mappers in FGS have very conflicting views sometimes about what is a good map. If I'm outvoted, fair enough, but I thought there's no big deal between 40 and 20 maps.

Just be aware that any beginner went on altfire 5-6 years ago, was seeing people mostly chatting, maptesting, sniping, now there's a risk the beginner goes on altfire, is spawnkilled 3 times just trying to vote a map. Immediately players won't think much of the server/game or players.

[~][FGS][Nobody~]

Alright.. to prove that I didn't ignore the topic.. here's a summary of what I've read.
I hope, it helps keeping the overview and reflects the opinions of the past 7 pages.
Basing on that, I'll think about a consensus within the next days.

- remove nukedeath
- balance tnag weapons (blade launcher and pulsegun aren't useful)#
- remove beretta for the good of enforcer and vacuum rifle
- limit map amount to 25
--remove the following maps:
- - DXMP_Cargoyard
- - DXMP_SillyFortress
- - DXMP_Titanium
- - DXSG_A51_TheDayAfterRC
- - DXSG_AbydosB (because unfinished)
--add the following maps (permanently):
- - DXMP_Proteus(beta2_final)
--add the following maps (one month trial):
- - DXMP_8red
- - DXMP_Abandoned
- - DXMP_NYC_Statue
- - DXMP_Pacman
- - DXMP_DX_Studios
- - DXMP_Yard8
- - DXMP_Turnpike
- - DXMP_JailBreak

- don't remove nukedeath

- add DMXP_Pacman
- suggests:
-->either: bi-monthly mapvote
-->or: add all maps and let players choose by mapvote

- altfire is not enough varied
- only usable weapons are: beretta, shock rifle and vacuum rifle

- Don't add DXMP_Abandoned

- nukedeath is worst aspect of altfire

- adding a mix of all map sizes, including 0aug maps

- Keep Abydos -OR- make a second server with just SG maps
- keep blade-launcher (it's a tactical weapon)
- do NOT add DXMP_ Pacman
--add the following maps:
- - DXMP_Cybris
- - DXMP_NYC_Statue
- - DXMP_Gobary
- - DXMP_DX_Studios
- - DXMP_Yard8
- - DXMP_Bunkers
- - DXMP_Turnpike
- - Bioweapon (Nobody: That's a map? O_o)
- - all FGS members maps that are bigger than Proteus
--remove the following maps:
- - DXMP_Zan-Goh

- remove mapvote
- don't host unfinished maps (except beta maps)
- agrees about second server
- re-order the maplist so big and small maps mix up
- remove: enforcer, submachine gun, stealth pistol
- increase blade launcher damage
--remove the following maps:
- - DXMP_Zan-Goh
- - DXMS_Iceworld

- energy rifle is essential
- Beretta is overpowered (kills too fast) -> replace beretta with sabot rifle
- bio-rifle and devastator cause clientside damage -> needs fixing
- leave blade-launcher unmodified (damage wise)

--add the following maps: (Nobody: with pulse rifle only?)
- - DXMP_8Red
- - DXMP_Abandoned

[Majster]

- remove nukedeath
- balance tnag weapons (blade launcher and pulsegun aren't useful)#
- remove beretta for the good of enforcer and vacuum rifle
- limit map amount to 25
--remove the following maps:
- - DXMP_Cargoyard
- - DXMP_SillyFortress
- - DXMP_Titanium
- - DXSG_A51_TheDayAfterRC
- - DXSG_AbydosB (because unfinished)
--add the following maps (permanently):
- - DXMP_Proteus(beta2_final)
--add the following maps (one month trial):
- - DXMP_8red
- - DXMP_Abandoned
- - DXMP_NYC_Statue
- - DXMP_Pacman
- - DXMP_DX_Studios
- - DXMP_Yard8
- - DXMP_Turnpike
- - DXMP_JailBreak

Close, but it should looks like that:

- balance tnag weapons (blade launcher and pulsegun aren't useful)#
- limit map amount to 25
--remove the following maps:
- - DXMP_Cargoyard
- - DXMP_SillyFortress
- - DXMP_Titanium
--add the following maps (permanently):
- - DXMP_Proteus(beta2_final)
--add the following maps (one month trial):
- - DXMP_8red
- - DXMP_NYC_Statue
- - DXMP_DX_Studios
- - DXMP_Yard8
- - DXMP_Turnpike
- - DXMP_JailBreak

[ShadowRunner]

House Arrest
8 Red
Hangar Storage (LaGuardia altfire map)
The altfire maps from 2005-7 to balance.

lams

UT skins + Cozmo's mutator

large maplist not small maplist

[himself]

I suggest,

-Add pacman and abandoned.
-Remove beretta or decrease it's fire rate and clip size.(6-8 is ideal)
-Remove silly fortress and cargoyard.
-Add enforcer in S9 map.
-Do not remove nukedeath.
-Fix Silo(the map) it always crashes.


The most important one is the 2nd one. Personally, beretta is overpowered and it ruins the game but you can decrease fire rate(lessen to half) and decrease clip size instead of removing it.

By the way I missed pacman.

[Poor]

Not sure if this is true but it seems to me that altfire is more popular during the winter. It might be a good time to do the changes. The SMG is more balanced than the beretta but it is equal or inferior to the vacuum rifle in all stats. The SMG or the beretta could be alternatives to the vacuum rifle, compromising range for damage but they need to be balanced and only one of the two are needed.

[[FGS]Chees]

imo Nobody just whack all the maps you have back on to the server and let players choose them, even Packman map the players will vote the maps so it makes no difference what are on there if map vote is is there . as for weapons...no op on them atm.